5

Some have tried (Hobbit, Avatar), but high frame rate movies just aren't being produced, in spite of the digital workflow making it much easier than in celluloid times.

Meanwhile, I have been watching everything in HFR using my TV's "Motion Smoothing" interpolation, which works fine 98% of time. And while receiving backlash when I confess this to my friends, I have to say that after the first couple weeks of adaptation, I just can't go back.

When I hear stuff like "24 fps is the true cinematic experience", I remember that this number is just something chosen by the compromise between cost and function, and that later got stuck in our brains as being related to cinema movies. It wasn't chosen by the way it look and feel.

The thing is: My experience convinced me that HFR indeed is better for the viewer experience, and the perception that true movies should be in 24 FPS is something you overcome in a few weeks time.

So my question is: Why don't cinematographers and producers think that HFR is better? When (if ever) will it become usual? Or is it something doomed by this vicious circle (thinking something is better because we are used to it).

Or...am I just wrong and 24 FPS is actually better?

(This has been flagged as opinion based, but it is not: There is a fact: HFR is not common and not being widely adopted, in spite of a few attempts. And there is an explanation for that somewhere. Some producer or director explaining why, for instance, would be an answer)

9
  • 9
    Because it looks like crap?
    – Valorum
    Commented Mar 18 at 19:19
  • 1
    To be more answerable (but still quite subjective), it would also be good to point out why HFR is "better for the viewer experience" - at least in your experience.
    – Joachim
    Commented Mar 18 at 20:17
  • 4
    Except the audience acceptance of any of those other changes was almost instant. No-one is suggesting SD is better than HD, or color or digital audio. Its not (entirely) a preconception, as I really thought I would prefer it, but didn't. Even 3D had a better run than high-frame rate.
    – iandotkelly
    Commented Mar 18 at 22:52
  • 2
    Even 29.97 looks weird and bad (80s soap operas), to say nothing of 60 or 120. Art is very often not about realism. Analog can easily be preferable to digital, and color vs black and white continues to be an artistic choice. Commented Mar 19 at 0:33
  • 2
    This really isn't much opinion-based at all. Sure, it might be this guy's opinion that HFR is better and yours might differ. But there very much has to be a reason why it doesn't take off the same way as 3D did (which some people also found jarring). If he's wrong and there's backable evidence that HFR is cumbersome or disliked by majority audiences, then that is an answer. You're not here to prove that he's "wrong", though, rather than to show why film-makers or many other people don't agree with him. Commented Mar 19 at 16:44

1 Answer 1

10

Like many innovations the issue is whether the perceived benefits are worth the cost

The movie industry has often pursued technology or viewing innovations to try to gain market share or raise prices. Some of them work, some of them don't but the people who ultimately choose are the audience. If the majority don't see the benefit or don't like the trade offs, they won't buy the product.

Colour put more bums on seats when the competition was greyscale and in a competitive industry studios moved to colour, though not always rapidly as it was more expensive. Same with sound.

Some other innovations have faired less well. Studios have been through at least 3 waves of trying 3D as a new differentiator. It sounds good: surely exploiting binocular vision has to make a better viewing experience? Each wave has failed.

The causes of this failure are worth exploring. One is that the studios tried to charge more for 3D viewings. Audiences clearly didn't think the experience was worth the extra money (especially where both 3D and 2D versions were available. Another is that 3D cannot be made a universally better experience. Even the best tech (polarised glasses) has to see image compromises (not least that the projected image is much dimmer) and many users don't like wearing the specs. Besides, there is a perceptual reason: the vast majority of 3D perception is not based on binocular vision so the "extra" image quality all other things being equal is small.

High frame rate movies suffer from some of the same issues. However much you think the result is a better image there are always compromises. HFR certainly costs more, so unless the audience perceives the differences to be positive and shows that in the bums on seats metric, there is no good reason for a studio to stick with the technology.

And there are good perceptual reasons why they might not think an HFR movie is better. One is that all movies are an illusion. A series of static images is perceived as a window into a real scene (or perhaps a real imaginary scene). But movies use all sorts of tricks to make the image look better. Tricks with lenses make far away things look near; makeup makes people look more attractive; lighting makes studio shot scenes look like outdoor scenes; action scenes look physically real; people look like they fall from tall buildings when the background is painted or greenscreened. But many of the "joins" in those illusions are aided and abetted by the resolution and framerate of the device they are recorded on. HFR content might arguably be more faithful to reality but compromise the illusion of reality by revealing the "joins".

And this is what many people report for some of the HFR movies that have been released. Make up and special effects look less realistic because the higher fidelity damages the illusion. 24 fps happens to hit a sort of optimal point between totally faithful reproduction and blurring of the special effects or movie tricks and not being so slow that even basic motion is jarring. HFR, by being more realistic, hurt the illusion. In principle, potentially, studios could put far more effort into the effects, the make up and all the other tricks to compensate for this. But that would add even more to the cost and that would need the audience to perceive a big benefit for it to affect the bums on seats and pay for the extra costs.

Ultimately if the audience doesn't see a big improvement, the technical benefit isn't worth it. I was happy to pay extra to see Oppenheimer on the largest iMAx screen in the UK as were many others. This justifies the extra cost of shooting and projection. So that tech is sometimes worth investing in. I have seen no HFR movie I would pay extra for or even choose over a 24fps version. I have seen precisely one movie where the 3D experience was better than the 2D version on the same screen (Gravity) and that was a very rare example. Given the market examples, I don't think I'm atypical.

In summary, if the audience doesn't perceive the benefit of a more costly tech, it will fail.

7
  • Seems like HFR would have little effect on makeup and other realism details, which are driven more by resolution, sharpness, color depth, etc., all of which have seen great improvements over the decades with no objection from the public. However the public is also rarely willing to pay extra for improvements, other than for example IMAX but even that is a smaller percentage. Motion blurring, like film grain, seems to be sort of a comfort food in some ways. It's an interesting hypothetical the OP posed, if one day all movies are in HFR, will most people think old movies in 24 fps looked better? Commented Mar 19 at 16:36
  • 2
    @StevePemberton Theoretically, you might think so on the makeup and realism. But as Filmmaker iQ pointed out after viewing both versions of Gemini Man, the extra detail in HFR might make you see the actor not the character which buggers the movie illusion. And it might also shatter the illusion in some action scenes with people though improving it with very fast objects. So not a general improvement audiences will all appreciate.
    – matt_black
    Commented Mar 19 at 19:07
  • 1
    But that would have been the case also with Todd-AO and Super Panavision 70 compared to 35mm, but I don't remember hearing about people not liking those. Although to your point they probably had to work harder to make sure closeups looked good at that level of detail. But that's true with any increase in fidelity. Filmed TV programs were sometimes lazy in this regards when it didn't matter since TVs of the day were more primitive. But now that those old programs have been remastered for HD that sometimes stands out, like on the Blu-ray of The Dick Van Dyke Show you really notice the makeup. Commented Mar 19 at 19:24
  • 5
    HFR brings viewers too close to an uncanny valley, where the image is more realistic but not realistic enough
    – Luciano
    Commented Mar 20 at 9:35
  • 1
    @StevePemberton I suspect you are simplifying the distinction between the technical quality of the picture and the subjective effect that audiences perceive. I don't think we fully understand the interaction of image quality, frame rate and perception.
    – matt_black
    Commented Mar 20 at 13:20

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .