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At the end of Avengers: Endgame Thanos from the past is killed thanks to Tony's snap. Wouldn't that mean that the events of the film Infinity War never happened, giving birth to a new timeline where everyone is still alive?

  • I agree with you on this one. – user1158023 May 6 at 21:50
  • Thanos' fate was changed when he found entangled Nebula's memory within the timeline that they were trying to restore. The fact he moved forward in time at that point makes all the difference as only backwards travel will spawn new timelines because if you return to the point you left (or even before, as long as you avoid yourself) the timeline remains unaffected. But, thanos can't return so it causes a paradox because he isn't in the original timeline anymore. I seriously didn't expect him to die, instead somehow for him to return to the past. – user1158023 May 6 at 22:02
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As per my understanding, every time someone is traveling through time a new timeline is created. This fits with Bruce Banner explaining that you cannot change your past and the Ancient One which mentions alternative timelines. Unfortunately the Ancient One didn't say exactly if they just need the stone back or will continue with exactly the same timeline, therefore not everybody did agree on that.

Joe Russo explained: "You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline."

Wouldn't that mean that the events of the film Infinity War never happened, giving birth to a new timeline where everyone is still alive?

Yes

There is a timeline in which Thanos disappears before the Infinity War, so that the Infinity War never happens in that timeline, but it is never shown nor mentioned after Thanos left. Captain America later goes there to return the Power Stone.

Avengers Endgame Timelines

  • superb!! is that your diagram @Chris? – Gomes Apr 29 at 13:22
  • @Gomes Yes, it is. – Chris Apr 29 at 15:54
  • didn't Cap finally land in 1940s? and that would create new timeline. If that were case, how does he goes back to 2023 without the suit though? For all the others, your explanation works very well! – Gomes Apr 30 at 10:56
  • @DhonJoe - here you go .. multiple timelines makes it quite clear. – John Apr 30 at 12:00
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    If Professor Hulk is right, and his plan was properly executed, the timelines don't split on Capt. America's returning the stones. The Ancient One seemed willing to accept his plan would stop the creation of a timeline/reality without the time stone. If the timeline still split on the return then the Ancient One's objections over the creation of defenseless timelines would still be valid. – zibadawa timmy Apr 30 at 22:11
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Wouldn't that mean that the events of the film Infinity War never happened?

No

The point here is that the Snap happened as did everything after that in the intervening 5 years including the destruction of the Infinity Stones by Thanos and his death at Thor's hands.

The Avengers pull the Infinity Stones from various past times by means of travelling through the Quantum Realm to make their own Infinity Gauntlet and undo the Snap (at least bring back everyone who was snapped).

The Unsnap would bring everyone back to the point where it happens, i.e. 5 years later.

But

(newish independent timeline / loop)

Thanos in 2014 discovers the plan and travels forwards to 2023 in an attempt to stop the Avenger's plan. However, due to our heroes efforts he is defeated and Past Thanos is dusted.

Steve Rogers then returns the Stones (off-screen) to the points in time they were taken from thus restoring the original timeline where the snap happened.

This closes the loop and destroys only the timeline/split where Thanos came forward in time.

Certainly, there are some lingering issues regarding how Past Gamora in now still in 2023 and probably a couple of others but that's the main gist.

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    Additionally, since "present" Thanos is killed by Stormbreaker blow, and "past" Thanos is dusted, there's no more Thanos to cause Snapocalypse, unless (Mordo's insistence on natural law?) wields the Time Stone and causes it to happen all over again. – enorl76 Apr 27 at 15:55
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    No, you still misunderstand. Cap resets the Main timeline and past Thanos never comes forward to affect the Main Timeline. It's a closed loop, The snap happens and gets undone 5 years later. – Paulie_D Apr 27 at 15:57
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    If the time line in which Thanos came forward in time was destroyed and if there is only one timeline exists now (in which infinity war happened) , how can ironman die ? Cz Thanos never came to kill him. Neither did Ironman snap his fingers. – Meenie Leis Apr 28 at 13:12
  • Also how can the current timeline be stable after unsnapping of Hulk ? Cz there are no infinity stones anymore as per the timeline. Thanos destroyed it before Thor beheaded him. And after fetching it from past and done with it, the stones have to be taken back to their respective time frames. So the resulting singular timeline has no stones at all.... – Meenie Leis Apr 28 at 13:16
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    How did they restore the original timeline? For example they knocked out Quill at the date we saw in Guardians of the Galaxy. I do not think that he just gets up, restarts the song and keeps dancing. – Chris Apr 28 at 14:27
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I feel a little sheepish doing this. But a good night's rest gave me some clarity on the situation and I wanted to share it.

The answer is in the timelines that are created because of time-travel.

If a person kills their past self shouldn’t they cease to exist? Well yes, only if both the present and past self are from the same timeline. When the team traveled to the past to get the stones, that very act of going back creates a new timeline.

In the original 2012, there was only one set of Avengers. In this new timeline, there are two.

The same applies to Nebula too, in the original 2014, there was only one Nebula, Quill took the Orb. The time travel leads to an altered timeline where Rhodes exits with the Orb. It’s the Nebula and Thanos (and party) from this new 2014 timeline that have come to 2023. Therefore Nebula killing her younger self will not affect her because the two of them belong to different timelines.

And finally ... the same applies to Thanos. The 2014 Thanos we see in this movie is from a different timeline, his death will not affect 2023 which has been through the Infinity War.

In short, all the past selves are from a timeline that is different from the main storyline we have seen so far in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

  • It's all in one and same timeline, they clearly say in the movies that killing someone in the past will not affect the future, they say that killing baby Thanos will not change the fact that he grew up and snaped half people. puting back the stones will make the alternate timelines created disapear. – Dhon Joe Apr 30 at 9:44
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    @DhonJoe, and that es exactly why there MUST be multiple timelines. One and only timeline gives birth to grandfather paradoxes all over the place. Besides, the movies and comics always talk about multiple timelines. The ancient one visually explains this. – John Apr 30 at 11:59
  • @John where does The Ancient One visually explain this ? she explains that taking one Infinity Stone will create multiple relities/timelines, and then Bruce tells her that they will put back the stones so the multiple realities will disapear, and that why Cap returns back to put the stones back – Dhon Joe Apr 30 at 12:10
  • Yes, and from one such timelines (which would disappear if the Stone is returned) created is where Thanos and Nebula come from. That Thanos is not the same as the one from the Original timeline. So him dying doesn't affect the main timeline. – MovieMe May 1 at 14:51
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I believe that it is supposed to be the same to return the Stones, as to return Thanos to their original point where they were taken in the past. Otherwise as stated in the movie, another timeline would be created.

However, it also stipulates that if you change the past, your future would not change but the other timeline future will be different.

Therefore there are now two timelines: the original from the movies and another where there was no snap due to Thanos vanishing in 2014.

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One of the critical unanswered questions is

What does "dusting" really mean?

Clearly there's a distinction between "death"-by-dust and death-by-other-means. The gauntlet was able to bring back the Snap victims, but was not able to bring back Black Widow, Vision, Quicksilver, or anyone else who had died. (they certainly had time to try, since both the Pym portals and the van were destroyed in the fight, and they had to build a new one; and they had motivation too. Hulk was known to be able to handle a snap; Thor probably could; and maybe even Scarlet Witch - and she certainly had motive to try.)

I suspect that "dusting" actually sent the dusted people into some alternate place or dimension; into limbo; from which the gauntlet could also return them.

And in the case of 2014 Thanos at the 2023 fight, I consider it likely that dusting simply sent him back to 2014 (with his army) to where they belonged, possibly with a memory wipe or "reset". Or not.

So Thanos might notice a "what was that?" sensation. Or he might have suddenly, in 2014, gained complete foreknowledge of the 2023 fight, and that foreknowledge is what motivated him to do what he actually did between 2014-2018. It may even be the "spark" that made him say "Fine. I'll do it myself."

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    Since the Soul Stone is an infinity stone itself, used to dust people, it makes sense that "The Dusted/The Vanished" can be brought back. However, the Soul Stone would probably not allow Gamora or Black Widow to be unsnapped because that's the Soul Stone's requirement for acquiring it, thus Banner can't bring Black Widow back... IMO, the Soul Stone actively prevents it. – enorl76 Apr 27 at 15:58
  • Well he couldn't bring back Vision or Quicksilver, either. When Cap was expected to return to the pad at the end, I was fully expecting Black Widow to appear instead. She says "A soul for a soul, like the Guardian said." – Harper May 2 at 18:49

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