41

When Two Face AKA Harvey Dent dies after falling from the building at the end of The Dark Knight, Gordon and Batman have the following conversation:

Gordon: The Joker took the best of us and tore him down. People will lose hope.

Batman: They won't. They must never know what he did.

Gordon: Five dead. Two of them cops. You can't sweep that...

So Gordon says Harvey Dent killed five people and two of them were the cops, Wuertz and Ramirez. Among the remaining, two are Maroni and his driver.

Who was the fifth one that Harvey killed?

6
  • 4
    He didn't kill Ramirez AFAIK. He spared her because the coin told him to. He just hit her. (BTW, there's a very elaborate answer on IMDb's FAQ.)
    – Walt
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 11:46
  • 2
    Well, it's really long. ;) Honestly, I never knew what Gordon is talking about or how he heard about all those deaths so quickly. The only reasonable guess is that it's some conclusion he reached after all the stuff he heard, and we'll never know what that tally really means or if it's even accurate. After all, he's going through a pretty crazy day.
    – Walt
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 11:58
  • 2
    Now that I think about it Gordon's "You can't sweep that..." is a bit off. Just blame it on the Joker, no one will notice :P
    – Puddler
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 23:08
  • 2
    @Puddler Well, see this and this.
    – Walt
    Commented Jan 24, 2017 at 9:35
  • 1
    Congratulations, this question is the winner of the corresponding topic challenge.
    – Napoleon Wilson
    Commented Jan 29, 2017 at 23:28

7 Answers 7

63

The fifth one isn't someone that Harvey Dent killed. It's Harvey himself.

The "five people" dead that Commissioner Gordon is referring to here are (in chronological order);

  • Michael Wuertz, the cop that Harvey kills in the bar.
  • Sal Maroni's driver, who Harvey shoots in the car.
  • Sal Maroni, who (presumably) dies in the car crash Harvey causes.
  • Anna Ramirez, the cop that Harvey uses to gain access to Commissioner Gordon's family. Although actually alive, Commissioner Gordon has no reason to think that Harvey would have spared her.
  • Harvey Dent himself, who Batman tackles off a building in order to save Commissioner Gordon's son.

There are other interpretations of this line elsewhere on the web (some people think that Sal Maroni's bodyguard is the fifth, and others think it's the bartender in the bar where Michael Wuertz is killed), but as far as I can tell this is the only interpretation that fulfills the "two of them cops" part of Commissioner Gordon's line.

1
  • It also makes sense for the context of the statement. Gordon was basically saying "how to we explain these deaths to the public?" Harvey Dent was a public figure, his death would need to be explained, and Gordon's question inherently implies that "Dent killed the others" is not a good explanation (even if it is the truth).
    – Flater
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 9:25
23

From the IMDb FAQ segment about this sentence:

A definitive answer is impossible. Christopher Nolan, when asked about an answer during a Blu-Ray Live Event, responded "I will answer this question one day. But not today."

However, I think this is the most reasonable explanation:

Detective Wuertz. Killed in the bar.

Detective Anna Ramirez. While Two-Face lets her live, he knocks her out. She would have been missing. Gordon, knowing she's the one who drove Rachel, might have assumed she was dead. Or, less likely, Dent inadvertently killed her - although he intends to let her live, she could have been severely injured (e.g., head striking pavement) after being knocked out by Dent, and subsequently died.

Maroni's Driver. Shot by Two-Face while driving along the scrapyard.

Salvatore Maroni. [...] Two-Face puts his seat belt on and shoots the driver, causing him to crash and flip the car. While Two-Face walks away from the crash unscathed, we never find out what happened to Maroni. We can assume he was either killed in the crash because he wasn't wearing his seat belt or left Gotham and went into hiding afterwards; either way, he isn't in The Dark Knight Rises.

Harvey Dent. Gordon could have meant Dent himself, because in The Dark Knight Rises the public is under the impression that Batman murdered Harvey Dent in cold blood. It is never mentioned who else that Batman had supposedly killed.

6

Gordon: Five dead. Two of them cops. You can't sweep that...

So Gordon says Harvey Dent killed five people

No, Gordon says that five people are dead.

One of them is Harvey Dent!

2
  • Obviously they didn't die from natural cause, did they? Also Gordon says you can't sweep that.
    – A J
    Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 16:47
  • 1
    @AJ: Right, you can't hide the deaths of five people all relating from the same incident. They don't have to be murders, and Gordon never said they were. Four of them, as it happens, were. And, yes, being murdered is one way to die. Commented Jan 23, 2017 at 17:35
0

You all are forgetting about the second dude with Maroni. Right before they get in the limo, you can quickly see on the left side of the screen Two-Face take out the second gunman from behind on the left side of the screen. Presumably he could be dead as well.

2
  • Then how does it justify the two cops part?
    – A J
    Commented Sep 4, 2017 at 16:51
  • youtu.be/P6cfN74wg9o Robert is right. He kills the thug, shoots the driver killing Maroni and the driver. He shoots Wuertz and though he didn't Ramirez, she may have either died hitting the pavement at the wrong angle or was knocked out for the duration of the climax of the film, and presumed dead by Gordon cause she may have not answered her cell. Commented Aug 31, 2020 at 5:53
0

Most likely scenario is this:

  • Harvey shoots Wuertz

  • Maroni's driver, whom he shot

  • Maroni, who didn't have his seatbelt on when Harvey shot the driver, presumably dead in the car crash

  • Ramirez, who Gordon thinks is dead, because she wouldn't have answered her cell after being knocked out cold via pistol whip courtesy of Harvey, therefore making Gordon think Harvey killed her

Now the last kill cannot be Harvey, because it's talking about the people Harvey killed. Why would Gordon refer to "sweeping away the kills" when referring to Harvey? Therefore he can't be included in the kill count, so there are a few alternate possibilities:

  • Possibly the bartender, since he might've run out of the bathroom to find out what's going on after hearing a gunshot
  • It could be the thug that we see disappear offscreen, which was most definitely Harvey's doing, since he ends up in the seat where the thug was supposed to be right next to Maroni, so he could've been killed off screen by a silent method, via knife or just choked to death
0

Old thread I know but as for the two cops part of the line Gordon may be referencing the cop in Harvey’s hospital that joker kill to get in to see dent. There’s no reason to believe that Gordon or anyone else would have known it was joker who killed that cop so it would make sense they might think it was sent who killed him

-3

The 5 people are:

  1. Wuertz
  2. Maroni's body guard - You see one frame in the movie when Maroni gets in the car and on the side, just for a second you see Harvey killing one of his body guards
  3. Maroni's driver
  4. Maroni
  5. 2nd cop allegedly killed by Harvey dent is the cop who shows up at hospital to retrieve Harvey - He was killed by joker but no one knew joker saw Harvey in the hospital. Therefore people knew that he was the cop that was sent to fetch Harvey from the hospital and he ended up dead. Assumption is Harvey killed him

I have seen the movie umpteen times and this was the first time I noticed this detail! Best Movie Ever!

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .