33

I have watched Se7en and followed Gluttony, Greed, Sloth and Lust. But I couldn't place the events of the other sins: Envy, Wrath and Pride.

And also is the scene in which the head of a woman (detective's wife?) is brought, connected to any of these scenes in some way?

Please provide some light on these. I am really confused.

  • 2
    Maybe just watch it again and pay more attention...? Pride is the model (you know, that whole scene?). Envy is the killing of Brad Pitt's wife (Spacey is envious of Pitt's life -- as he explains quite clearly in the car). Wrath is Brad Pitt taking revenge. It's all there, if you're watching. – Django Reinhardt Nov 18 '12 at 2:59
34

Envy is killing the wife of the policeman. As mentioned on Wikipedia:

...Doe claims to represent the sin of "Envy"; he was jealous of Mills' normal life, and killed Tracy after failing to "play husband" with her...

Wrath is the policeman killing the murderer. I can't remember pride, I should re-watch it to spot it but the Wikipedia page states:

Some time later, they investigate the death of a young model whose face had been mutilated. Having chosen to kill herself rather than live with a disfigured face, she is the victim of "Pride".

The point of the movie was that the killer used the detective to complete the series.

  • What I still don't understand is: what was Mill's wife's sin? She was just a tool in John's hands, wasn't she? – clabacchio Oct 22 '13 at 21:57
  • 3
    @clabacchio: Mill's wife is not a sinner. Joe Doe is the sinner accountable for the Envy and Mill was the sinner accountable for the Warth. John's master plan was to punish each other, Mill punishment was the death of his wife and future son and John punishment was his execution in the hands of Mill. – S182 Mar 27 '14 at 8:03
  • 2
    @Serge but it seems to me that he didn't kill any "innocent" in the previous cases, how does it fit in his idea? – clabacchio Mar 27 '14 at 8:24
  • 2
    I think he kills her in order to punish Mill's for his future actions. It is some kind of circle: when Mills kills John he punish him for the Envy but at the same time he becomes accountable for the Warth, when John kill Mill's wife he punish Mill's for the Warth but at the same time he becomes accountable for the Envy. – S182 Mar 27 '14 at 8:42
8

You should pay more attention! :-P

You can see, John Doe explaining each of the sins he's done up until now in the car, in this video.

PRIDE: The model is given a choice after having her face mutilated. Phone an ambulance or take an overdose. Her pride makes her take an overdose.

He has two left by that time, Envy and Wrath.

ENVY: John Doe tells Detective Mills how much he admires him and his wife for the life they've made for themselves. Watch video

WRATH: Detective Mills shoots John Doe for mailing him his wife's head. Watch Video

They're not the strongest cases, but then, John Doe was pretty nuts!

2

ISTR that pride was the girl who had her nose cut off and then took an overdose (tablets glued to one hand) rather than phone an ambulance (phone glued to the other hand).

2

i think, the victims were killed by the corresponding deadly sin. the fat guy died by eating, the whore by sex, the junkie by lying in bed. in the last scene, Tracy died by Doe's jealousy hence "envy" then Doe died by Mills' hatred hence "wrath"

0

I've got another explanation (It's actually quite evil :3): It's Mills the wrath that we've already known. But, there's nothing in the box. Somerset is the envy and the criminal found this potential qualities hiding in his personality by searching his personal information. We can see that in the scene before Somerset admired Mill's life much. It can be seen as the foreshadow for his motivation of giving a wrong expression which let Mills kill Doe. Then as most of the people didn't know what actually made Mills to kill Doe. No one doubt about what kind of information Somerset is giving to Mills at that time. Thus, after Mills killed Doe the crime is completed while Tracy is not actually dead. But Envy survived, there's two choices for him to choose, one is concealing the fact, which means Envy was conceptually Doe himself. Another is to reveal the truth. Which purpose is even more malicious. To expose the real evil side hiding deeply in the souls of ordinary people, even his the incarnation of laws and justice. Well it's just a thought though. Becasue: No! the ending is not as powerful as I wished :P

  • This is baseless.No offence but If Mills' wife wasn't killed and SoAlso merset as you say is the symbolic representation of 'envy', isn't it clear that after killing and all Mills is gonna find out if his wife survives or not.So Somerset dare not to lie to the voracious,wrathful cop like Mills.from the beginning it seems to me that Mills sees Somerset as a rivalry(till Somerset offers to help him) and Somerset if he envys Mills, he wouldn't have offered to help Mills with the homicide when he is due to retire.(1/2) – Harini Jul 20 '17 at 18:14
  • There is also particular scene where Mills explains Somerset 'You think,people have got no emotions and they are apathetic about crimes and so you thought of quitting this job' (not as it as).This explains Somerset was dealing with his old age problem,he is too far from feeling envious of his young colleague's life as he had experienced all or most of them when he was Mills' age.(2/2) – Harini Jul 20 '17 at 18:16
0

You´re completely right with your thoughts. After the fifth sin the causal chain gets illogical and inconsistent.

Here´s the list:

1) An obese man gets punished (killed) by "John Doe” for GLUTTONY

2) A wealthy man gets punished (killed) for his GREED

3) A drug dealer gets punished (killed) for SLOTH

4) A prostitute gets punished (killed) for LUST

5) A model gets punished (killed) for PRIDE

(but now it gets inconsistent:)

6) The sixth murder - if this line would stay consistent - should be someone getting punished for ENVY. but "John Doe” murders Mills´ girlfriend, which makes no sense in the causal chain… she is not the victim because of her envious behaviour, she´s just a plot-tool so envy does not get punished at this point at all.

7) The seventh sin would be WRATH, now Mills kills John Doe, which actually now takes care of point six, ENVY.

  • What we have here is an innocent for kill number 6 who is not related to ENVY herself.
  • Kill number 7 should be WRATH, but clears up number 6, ENVY.
  • and sinner number seven, WRATH (personified by Mills), is not killed at all, his punishment is the loss of his wife and child.

Great you realized that, most people don´t.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .