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After Janet and Michael accidentally revealed the nature of the Afterlife to Chidi, Elinor, Jason, and Tahani, Michael stated that their newfound knowledge meant that they could no longer earn any points towards entry to the Good Place because any positive action they took would be corrupted by the fact that they were doing it in an effort to get into the Good Place.

However, Michael later visits Doug Forcett, who discovered how the point system works in 1972 and has been trying to live an extremely good life in the interim. He's revealed to have 520,000 points and was briefly deemed by Michael to be a possible prototype for how to get people into the Afterlife, in spite of the fact that all of his actions are explicitly motivated by a desire to get into the Good Place (edit: or, at least, to avoid going to the Bad Place; whether that distinction is relevant is actually a fascinating question in and of itself).

Why was he able to continue to earn points after 1972?

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    Good question. I guess...because the discovery was not confirmed? I forgot already: Did someone ever tell Doug like 'Oh you're right. Good job!' while Doug was in a completely sober state?
    – BCLC
    Apr 10, 2022 at 11:16
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    @BCLC good point - if Doug never knew his idea was correct and he was in, that would be a reasonable explanation for him still trying to earn good points. (Poor Doug.)
    – NiceOrc
    Apr 11, 2022 at 4:43
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    @BCLC Wouldn't he still have a corrupt reason for earning points, though? Apr 11, 2022 at 13:35

3 Answers 3

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It's a good question. While I've already forgotten this particular part of the show (other parts I just can't forget because of this se site. Lol), I think the bottom line is that Doug didn't get extra dimensional/supernatural/divine confirmation the way main characters did.

I figure it's like actual Heaven and Hell in, say, Christianity. Consider the parable The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31). The rich man goes to Hell (or purgatory?) and has much regret, but it's not like the rich man didn't already know about Heaven and Hell. (Of course this is the opposite outcome of Doug. Doug goes to Heaven, but the rich man went to Hell [or purgatory?].)

Edit:

The explanation in the first episode was that Doug got high one day and told his friend what he thought the afterlife would be like, getting it 92% correct, much higher than anyone else in history. This is still effectively a lucky guess though so definitely falls into "belief" rather than "certainty". – Princess Ada

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    This might even be directly stated in the show. Certain knowledge is a categorically different thing than high confidence in a hypothesis. Epistemology is an important dimension of plenty of ethical theory, so it's quite natural that the show created a situation that highlights the difference.
    – Tom
    Apr 12, 2022 at 16:39
  • @Tom Ah wait I think I get it: Is it a little like mutual knowledge vs common knowledge? Thanks for sharing!
    – BCLC
    Apr 12, 2022 at 19:03
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    Sorry, but no. What matters here is not the beliefs of other people. What matters is the difference between "certainty" vs "belief." Certainty is belief + confirmation that the belief is accurate. Elinor & co have certainty that the points-system is real, because Michael gave them positive confirmation. Doug merely has belief: he thinks he's figured it out, but without explicit confirmation that he's right, he still has to make a choice whether to act in accordance with his possibly-true/possibly-false hypothesis.
    – Tom
    Apr 12, 2022 at 19:15
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    The explanation in the first episode was that Doug got high one day and told his friend what he thought the afterlife would be like, getting it 92% correct, much higher than anyone else in history. This is still effectively a lucky guess though so definitely falls into "belief" rather than "certainty". Apr 13, 2022 at 14:20
  • @PrincessAda Nice. Thanks. I'll add that. Also is this what your username references ?
    – BCLC
    Apr 13, 2022 at 14:41
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All of his actions are explicitly motivated by a desire to get into the Good Place.

I disagree:

  1. When old, he only mentioned that he does not want to risk going to The Bad Place;
  2. Not wanting to go to The Bad Place ≠ being greedy to enter The Good Place;
  3. Being greedy to enter The Good Place → always bad. Wanting to avoid The Bad Place → usually not bad.
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  • I'm not sure if I agree; I don't think that fear of being punished is any better than desire for a reward from a Kantian perspective. In either case, the person performing the act is doing it for some other reason than just the duty to perform the act. Aug 1, 2022 at 17:16
  • @EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Is the point system based entirely on Kant? Aug 1, 2022 at 17:26
  • Michael seems to imply that Chidi et. al. couldn't earn points because their motives would be corrupt, so it seems to be at least partially Kantian. Aug 1, 2022 at 17:28
  • @EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Did Doug Forcett act entirely out of fear of going to The Bad Place? He seemed to be truly concerned about the snails on his garden, not just acting to "cheat the game". Aug 1, 2022 at 17:29
  • @EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine "I don't think that fear of being punished is any better than desire for a reward" Are you telling me that noone that got into The Good Place had fear of being punished if they acted otherwise? Not having shame or fear seems pretty sociopathic for me, and sociopaths don't get into The Good Place. Aug 1, 2022 at 17:36
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The distinction is that Chidi, Elinor, Jason, and Tahani couldn't know about the afterlife because they were on trial to prove that they were genuinely good people who deserved to be in the Good Place. That was the rule set in place by the Judge and Shawn*. Likewise, this was also the rule set in place when they were trying to recreate the Good Place experiment with new humans.

Doug Forcett was not on trial so he didn't have to follow that rule.

Under normal circumstances, motivation doesn't seem to actually be a determining factor for how one accumulates points in The Good Place. One example in a later season compares two people, a medieval peasant who picked flowers for his mother and a modern day man who bought flowers for his mother.

The peasant got positive points because he did a good thing by making his mom happy. The modern day man got positive points for the same thing, but then received many more negative points because the money he bought the flowers with went to a large corporation which pollutes the planet.

Their intent and mindset where not taken in to consideration. The only thing that mattered was the outcome that there actions brought about.

*If I remember right, it was Shawn who brought this up. Potentially to make it more difficult to win the trial, and he knew Michael is too much of a coward to speak up and argue.

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