In the new Joker movie the Joker is about 45 years old (based on appearance and Joaquin Phoenix's real age).

In one scene in the movie it is shown how Thomas and Martha Wayne die.

So, given that there is an age gap of probably about 15-20 years between young Bruce Wayne and Batman, does that mean that Batman would fight a 60+ year old Joker in this universe?

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    He’s supposed to be 30 in the film Joker. They mention it. Jan 13, 2020 at 5:42
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    Frankly, the age difference is the smallest issue of integrating this. The portrayal of Thomas Wayne and Alfred Pennyworth are sort of the complete opposite of how they are portrayed in other Batman stories. Also if you follow the implications through, a Batman arising from the events of Joker would be a reactionary oppressor of the innocents, just as Thomas is in the movie. By turning Joker into the hero, any Batman arising from the events of Joker would necessarily be a villain. Jan 14, 2020 at 15:25

2 Answers 2


Joker is a character study movie, it is loosely based on the super villain Joker from the DC universe, but it is not a typical super-hero movie.

"Joker movie would still work even if DC Comics did not exist", as commented by Kevin Smith.

As you stated, near the end of this movie, it is shown that the Waynes are shot and killed but it does not mean that this Joker played by Joaquin Phoenix is the Joker we expect him to be.

  • Given the age difference, this Joker by Joaquin Phoenix cannot be the super villain Joker but we have to admit that it has never been explicitly stated that they are the same person. In theory, this Joker by Joaquin Phoenix could be an inspiration of the super villain Joker, who can be at a younger age at the time.
  • There is one way to know for sure how this Joker by Joaquin Phoenix fits in with the DC storyline, and that is via a sequel. But the movie director and Joaquin Phoenix have made it known that this Joker movie is an independent movie and there is no plan for a sequel (I would personally say they will seriously consider a sequel now with its success at the box office)
  • Some viewers also speculated with evidence that the whole movie could be all happening in this Joker's head, given his unreliable narrator status.
  • A "sequel" could equally be a standalone study of a different character, like the planned X-Men Origins series.
    – OrangeDog
    Oct 16, 2019 at 11:47
  • This is like my theory that Martha Wayne and Martha Kent are in fact actually the same person - she arranged for the "double-murder" but faked her own death to get away from Thomas (some marital dispute that was covered up) and hid out in Smallville, where she met and married Jonathan Kent and the rest is history. Oct 16, 2019 at 18:57
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    Think of V for Vendetta, Joker like V is not so much a person as much as an idea, a man can die but an idea is bullet-proof. A Joker (Arthur Fleck) can inspire others to take the mantle (or purple suit) and some may have chemical damage white skin/green hair. Different person, same idea
    – m1gp0z
    Oct 16, 2019 at 19:53
  • Hm, OK. Seems a bit like making another Indiana Jones movie that takes place 30 years prior to the first one, has a 30 year old Archaeology professor named Indiana Jones in it who goes on entertaining treasure hunts and faces prussian soldiers, but also meets Henry Jones Sr. at some point. Oh well, not every answer has to be satisfying, i guess.
    – Kakturus
    Oct 17, 2019 at 8:27
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    @Kakturus as a character study from an unreliable narrator, it's meant to contest and even upend previous mythological ideas about "whom" the Joker could or couldn't be and then by extension, do the same to Batman. It's meta being a meditation in it's approach, while also forcing us to think about current issues we face as a society. Oct 21, 2019 at 14:06

I hadn't thought that the "whole thing" could be in his head... imagine this is partially true.

Arthur, has a habit of seeing something and expanding on it in his fantasies.

What if that unrest was happening, but not the way he imagined it. There were riots and the Waynes were killed, but it had nothing to do with him.

Let's say he did kill some people. Perhaps just his mother. Perhaps even as depicted on the Murray show or something like that. He then is sent to Arkham where he meets a younger inmate who is properly dangerously insane... and tells that inmate his fantasy version of events... inspiring The Joker.

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