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At the end of Once Upon a Time in America, when Noodles visits Deborah and asks her about Senator Bailey (who later turns out to be Max), she first denies to know him but shortly after we learn that she is indeed affiliated to him and even has a son with him (who indeed looks like the young Max).

But while I could understand that Max maybe above all other reasons just wanted to "steal" Deborah from Noodles out of his anger over his betrayal, I wonder what drove Deborah to him, given that she never had a high opinion about Noodles' way of life and especially his friend Max. What was her motivation to start a relationship with him, especially one that lasted so long and spawned a son?

Or is there any chance that she did not know about Bailey's true identity? Yet I think she had already seen (and known) Max back in the 30s. But maybe she only realized it later when she was already in a relation with him (since she seems to know it when Noodles visits her in the 60s).

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4 Answers 4

I don't think there is a real answer in terms of the character, and I suppose we could imagine many scenarios since the "romance" occurred entirely offscreen. I think that it is beside the point, in terms of the writers of the film, what Deborah wants or what her point of view is. She was the hope of escape for Noodles, she was only important in terms of what she symbolized for him. His rape of her was his damnation. And the only reason she is married to Max in the future is to add tragedy and pathos to the betrayal of Noodles by Max.

The entire "old age" segment of the film has an eerie dreamlike quality, and I'm not sure it is supposed to seem realistic. Of course, there is the famous "it was an opium dream" theory supported by the fact that the movie ends on Noodles in the opium den in the past. One should also note that while Max and Noodles (and other characters) look noticably older, Deborah looks unchanged from 30 years before. I know this isn't an answer, but I think this storyline is more poetic and interpretive than something we are supposed to analyze from a character point of view.

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While I wouldn't go as far as to think the 60s part was only a dream (and am not implying that you do), I still like your general approach. In fact Deborah's unchanged age occurred to me, too, but did fit perfectly to the statements about that from Noodles and to her meaning for him. There is no problem with not giving a definite answer if you can provide reasons for why we're not supposed to give an answer, especially with such an admittedly slightly speculative question. So +1, too. – Napoleon Wilson Mar 11 '14 at 11:55

First, consider Max’s motivation in snagging Deborah. Throughout the film, Max is driven to sexually possess the women Noodles has already had. During their initiation into the world of sex, Max insists that Noodles take Peggy first. Years later, Max takes the woman Noodles raped, Carol, as his lover. He even asks the prostitute in the hearse who gives Noodles “a roll” if she wants “a little pick me up.” Whether this indicates Max’s latent homosexuality (quite possible considering he constantly refers to sodomy in his language, including during an early exchange with Noodles: “Drop your pants and I’ll stick it to you again.”) or merely stems from macho competition is open to interpretation, but one thing is clear: Max desires Noodles’ women. And possessing Deborah, Noodles’ life-long romantic ideal, would be Max’s crowning achievement. He must have her and will go to any length necessary to make it happen.

Deborah might have been receptive to Max’s initial advances partly out of revenge against Noodles for raping her. But more importantly, Max, unlike Noodles, is the kind of man Deborah would respect. He may have started out as a poor immigrant, but, unlike Noodles, he is a man of ambition with big plans for himself. Max reinvents himself, literally assuming a new identity, and becomes just the kind of successful, upwardly mobile type that would attract Deborah. Noodles himself points out the similarity of the pair when he complains to Deborah, “You’s twos are just alike – that’s why you hate each other so much.” Deborah and Max, for all their apparent antipathy, share the same values for wealth and fame – in Deborah’s words “making it to the top.” By contrast, Noodles is a self-described loser whose lack of ambition is held in contempt by both Deborah (“you’ll always be a two-bit punk”) and Max (“You’ll carry the stink of the streets for the rest of your life”).

Just as Deborah is willing to give up the one person she’s ever loved to pursue her dreams of stardom, so Max is willing to sacrifice his boyhood friends to facilitate his own ascendancy. Both Max and Deborah, who is portrayed as narcissistic prima Donna, are willing to do whatever it takes to “get to the top.”

Plus, the fairy-tale world Leone creates is so self-contained and hermetically sealed that the central characters barely interact with anyone other than each other and those immediately associated with them. In this context, who else was Deborah going to end up with?

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Welcome to Movies & TV and congratulations to an excellent first answer. – Napoleon Wilson Mar 9 at 13:20

Unfortunately, the reasons are never really explained. There are a few possibilities, but nothing definitive.

Firstly, it's possible that after Noodles rape of her, she simply lost respect for herself and her body and simply decided that material riches were all she needed. She chose to be with Max/Bailey and take the financial security and comfort that relationship brings - not all that surprising given her background.

A second possibility is that the rape had nothing to do with it and she was simply attracted to the money. This is certainly the opinion of the FAQ part of one of the movie's fansites, Once Upon a Time in, which states:

Why would Deborah ever willingly hook up with Mr Bailey?

Mr Bailey is a multi millionaire, with valuable assets, a grand mansion and a son. I've no problem with this whatsoever. Deborah probably isn't madly in love with Bailey but as we get older other factors such as comfort and security become more important.

A third possibility I read in another article, which believed Deborah's motivations in the movie were always suspect:

As Max increasingly assimilates the values of capitalism however, his use of prostitution changes. He later uses his status as Secretary Bailey to acquire Deborah, in essence using wealth to "hoard" Noodles' girl where he previously would have "shared the wealth". This act also implies that Deborah, who has been built up as the "nice girl" in this film, really differs from a hooker like Peggy only in price.

Ultimately, there is no correct answer and we can only made educated guesses. It seems highly unlikely Deborah didn't know Max's true identity. However, I also don't like the idea of her being simply attracted to money, as I hoped for better from her character. Therefore, I like to believe in the first theory - although we'll never know the "real" answer.

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In fact the attraction to money doesn't sound so unfitting as she always seemed a little bit snobby to me. The biggest problem I had was her disliking of Max. But while those articles don't seem to address the question if she knew who he was, money and security might still provide the most reasonable motivation even if she knew. – Napoleon Wilson Mar 11 '14 at 11:50
The second article does mention the problem of some of the characters not recognising Max (although not explicitly stating Deborah) - but it does recognise this as one of the weakest parts of the film. More explanation really would have been good. In the absence of it, money and security sounds like a good enough reason. – Andrew Martin Mar 11 '14 at 11:52

Max and Deborah had one thing in common, they were both in love with Noodles. Max always slept with the women that Noodles had had first. Max's feelings towards Noodles were pseudo-homosexual, no doubt about it. Max takes as his mistress Noodles' first 'rape' victim, Carol. And then years later he gets together with the love of Noddles' life, Deborah, who is also one of Noodles rape victims, but more of that later. Max is able to feel sexually close to Noodles by having sex with the women that Noodles has had sex with first (forced or otherwise). This is the closest thing to physical intimacy with Noodles that Max will ever get.

Noodles loves both Deborah and Max, but he feels more of a sense of loyalty to Max and this is why he always chooses to stand by Max, even at the expense of Deborah. Twice in this film, both as a child and an adult, Deborah taunts Noodles with the words "Mama's calling.", meaning that Max wants Noodles at his side. Deborah is hurt that Noodles always chooses Max over her, and ultimately this is the REAL reason that she decides to follow her ambition and go to Chicago, she is angry and upset that SHE is not number one in Noodles loyalties and priorities, Max is and Deborah feels that she will always be competing with Max for the attention of Noodles. This is also the reason that Deborah and Max have never liked each other, they both love Noodles and there is a deep jealousy between them, because they BOTH want Noodles.

Max of course can never reveal to Noodles how he really feels about him, perhaps Max does not even realise himself that what he feels for Noodles is sexual love. This is the reason that utimately, Max and Deborah get together later in life, their shared love of Noodles is what draws them together, and keeps them together, despite the fact that they previously did not like each other. By being together it is as if they can keep alive their memories of Noodles and the deep love that they still both feel for him.

As for Noodles, he is a much simpler character (at least he is, compared to Deborah and Max). Noodles is a thug, plain and simple. When he makes his fortune, he believes that this will convince Deborah to marry him and MAYBE she would have if he had been prepared to choose HER instead of Max and the gangster life-style; but Noodles is not a hugely intelligent individual and he blows his chance with Deborah by not putting her first.

He takes her on a date, and in the back of a limousine, Deborah tells Noodles she is going to Chicago in search of stardom. Noodles is devastated, crushed. He has loved this girl since he was a kid, and finally, just when he thought she was within his reach, he is going to lose her again. He is so deeply hurt, and so angry that his love is going to be leaving him, probably forever, that for a moment he is in the grip of some kind of madness. Deborah is startled. She has never felt such anger and coldness from Noodles, and she doesn't like it, she wants them to part as friends so she leans in and gently kisses him. This is too much for Noodles, he is getting mixed signals from Deborah (he believes). First she is rejecting him, and then she is kissing him. Noodles is confused......does Deborah want him to make love to her?

Now remember, Noodles is not very intelligent, and he has been brought up with absolutely no idea of how to treat women. He has spent his most formative years in a borstal and a prison, and he himself committed an act of murder when he was little more than a child. His experiences with women have been limited to prostitutes or with women like Carol, the blonde cashier who encouraged him to rape her because she is a masochist who enjoys extremely rough sex; the scene in which Carol entices and provokes Noodles in to raping her ends with her having a screaming orgasm. So now we have Noodles in the back of a Limo with the pure and innocent Deborah, and he is thinking that she is 'asking for it' as well.....and so he rapes her in the most brutal and horrific fashion. But he discovers that Deborah is most certainly not like Carol, or the young prostitute Peggy, Deborah is definitely NOT ejoying what is happening, Deborah is certainly screaming, but not with pleasure. Noodles is genuinely puzzled by Debbie's 'strange' reaction, and this is why he carries on with the ghastly rape, he figures that if he 'keeps going' and 'gives her a bit more' she will start to enjoy it like Carol did, poor, ignorant, foolish Noodles.

Only later does he realise that he has ruined whatever chance he ever had with the love of his life by this one revolting and despicable act. For her part, Deborah moves on with her life, but there is a part of her that will never stop loving him because she also realises, deep down, that Noodles has suffered more from the act of raping her than she herself has. Noodles life was in ruins from the moment he raped Deborah, and he was never truly happy again. He had hurt and violated the one person that he loved more than anyone else in the world and this is the reason that Deborah is very easy on him when he turns up in her dressing room all those years later, she doesn't scream or rage at him because she knows he has already suffered a life sentence of regret for what he did to her and she has finally forgiven him.

As for Max, he has wealth, fame, position, he has Deborah and they have a son together named David, who is undoubtedly named after Noodles, whose real name is of course David Aaronson. And yet, Max is not happy. How can he be, when he betrayed the only person he has ever deeply and truly loved? His friend and the love of his life, Noodles. This is the reason Max wants Noodles to kill him, it is his way of saying to Noodles, you can kill me for what I did to you but please forgive me first.

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Oh my god. Please please PLEASE learn to split your answers up into things called paragraphs... – CGCampbell Sep 6 at 0:29
Welcome to Movies & TV. Against the answer's discouragement to read it at all, I took the time to read your answer and introduce some much needed paragraphs (and punctuation other than ".....") in what turns out to actually be a quite interesting and well-reasoned answer, even if the second half, while equally interesting, might be a bit less relevant to the question asked. For future answers please consider writing them in a form that does not dilute their actually pretty good content. +2 – Napoleon Wilson Sep 6 at 12:25

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